Lecrae recently sat down to talk with Phil Vischer about his relationship with white evangelicalism in an interview for The Holy Post. The Holy Post podcast has been self-described as “thoughtful Christian commentary, plus ukulele (and occasional ‘butt news’,)” and is co-hosted by writer, animator, and creator of VeggieTales Phil Vischer and writer and speaker Skye Jethani.

In the interview, Lecrae addresses his differing experiences with the black church and the white church, his reaction to the pushback he has received, how negative criticism has affected his personal faith journey, the disconnect between white evangelicalism and black culture, and much more.

Vischer brings a uniquely refreshing mix of humor and insightfulness, treating important topics seriously while also lightening the mood when appropriate. The interview finishes with Lecrae sharing his mindset behind his ministry going forward, as well as what gives him hope in tumultuous times: “…I think, man, the tomb is empty. Death is defeated. It was empty during the Trail of Tears, it was empty during the Holocaust, it was empty during slavery. It was empty then, and it’s empty now … I’m confident that God is still at work.”

Listen to Lecrae in the episode of The Holy Post below!

Note: skip to about 23:25 for the beginning of the interview itself.